Author Topic: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?  (Read 2473 times)

Offline mitsguy2001

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Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« on: April 13, 2014, 09:06:39 PM »
One thing that I am wondering about is, why is it that, on this board, the song "Ur So Gay" is so popular?  That song was not a hit on any chart anywhere on the world, but it seems that it is very popular on this board.  Whenever I express my dislike of the song (even when I make it clear that I have nothing against anyone who enjoys the song), I tend to be given a hard time.  Yet others who post about songs that they dislike (including Katy's major hits, and songs with positive messages) are not given similar treatment.

The reason why the popularity of that song surprises me so much is because it contradicts the message in most of Katy's other songs.  Most of Katy's songs have messages about being yourself and accepting who you are.  Ur So Gay, on the other hand, attacks and ex-boyfriend for not living up to arbitrary gender norms, and goes so far as to tell him to commit suicide, implying that his life is not worth living.  I know people here say not to take Ur So Gay seriously, but suicide is not something to joke about.  Since most of us like most of Katy's songs, most of us would agree with Katy's message of self-acceptance from most of her other songs, which makes it surprising that Ur So Gay would be so popular.  The song One of the Boys implies that during Katy's early life, she herself did not live up to arbitrary gender stereotypes.

I am interested in hearing from both men and women, and both gay, straight, and bisexual people why it is that you like the song Ur So Gay.

Before I go into more detail, I do want to say that a great strength of Katy is the diversity of her songs.  Unlike many other artists, no two of Katy's songs are the same.  On her Prism album alone, there are many different unique musical styles.  However, the flip side to this diversity is that it also means that even a big fan of Katy is likely to dislike at least some of her songs.  For example, I seriously doubt that Katy would expect By the Grace of God, and Peacock, to appeal to the same audience.

Several straight female members of this board have said that they like to sing Ur so Gay to or about ex-boyfriends.  My question is: how would you feel if an ex-boyfriend was singing that song to or about you?  Would you accept it, or would it make you angry?  If it makes you angry, then why the double standard?

Similarly, if instead of Katy, it was sung by a male singer, and was attacking an overly masculine ex-girlfriend, would you support the song?  Or would you argue that it was offensive?  If the later, then why the double standard?

Now, my question for the straight male members of the board who like this song: why do you like it?  I am a straight male.  Remember, this song is attacking her ex-boyfriend (obviously a straight male) for not living up to arbitrary gender norms.  We are exactly the type of people that the song is attacking!  In fact, I consider labeling a straight male who does not fit arbitrary gender stereotypes to be "gay" to be the absolute worst form of bullying, since when somebody like myself stands up for myself and asserts that I am not gay, I am labeled as homophobic.  By asserting that I am not gay, I am not trying to say that there is anything wrong with being gay or that being gay is somehow undesirable, just that I myself am not gay.

I have dealt with this kind of bullying both in school and on my job.  For those of you who are still in school: I am sorry to tell you that bullying in the workplace is far worse than anything you have ever experienced in school.  I have to deal with coworkers telling me that the music I listen to is "gay" (they don't even know that I'm a fan of Katy), that the TV shows I watch are "gay", that activities that I enjoy doing are "gay", and even that the route I take to work is "gay".  The entire time that I've worked for this company, even before I was married, I was in a serious relationship with a woman, so they know very well that I am straight.  Yet, as I mentioned, all I can do is just accept the bullying, and there is not a thing I can do about it.  Society expects straight men to just suffer in silence and just keep our mouths shut when we are being attacked.  Yet I feel that the Internet is the one place where we can "find our inner roar", and stand up for ourselves and let our feelings be known (for that matter, why does just about every media source in existence consider Roar to be a female empowerment anthem, even though Katy herself has said that she intended the song for both genders?).  Even if it's something as simple as expressing a dislike of one Katy Perry song from nearly 7 years ago that was never a hit and is not like any of Katy's other songs, no matter how much I assert that fact that I otherwise have great respect for Katy, and that I consider most of her music to be among the best of the current era.

Again, I want to know why the straight male members of this board enjoy that song so much?  Part of me wonders if you are just so desensitized to the bullying, and have just accepted that you have to accept the bullying in silence, that you are desensitized to the hate in that song.

My next question is for gay and bisexual men and women: although I understand that the song is not intended to be anti-gay, why do you like that song so much, even though it implies that being gay is somehow negative, given that it uses the word "gay" as an insult toward a straight man?  Doesn't that imply that being gay is a negative?  Or do you not see it that way?  I do know that Katy did win an award for her song Firework reducing suicide in the gay community (deservedly so; I am sure anyone who reads my posts knows how much I like that song and its video).  But how do you feel about the fact that 3 years earlier, Katy had a song which encouraged someone to commit suicide (the fact that it was targeted at a straight male shouldn't matter)?

A few other aspects about the song that make no sense whatsoever: it attacks the guy for driving an electric car, yet Katy recently bought electric cars for several of her staff members.  Is Katy saying only women should drive electric cars?  If so, are all of he staff members she gave the cars to female?  And, what about the line about the guy needing SPF 45 just to stay alive?  Are men not supposed to use sunscreen?  Assuming that Katy uses sunscreen, does she feel only women should be allowed to use it?  Does she feel that men with skin cancer are sexy?

The one thing all of us on this board agree is that Katy has a very beautiful voice.  Katy's voice is the one redeeming factor that Ur So Gay has.  Admittedly, her voice does sound very nice in that song.  But there is nothing unique or special about her voice in that song.  Even if one just wants to listen to a song just to appreciate the aesthetic beauty of her voice, there are plenty of other songs with positive or at least neutral messages that one can choose.  It's not as if it's the one song that shows off the beauty of her voice (I have posted in other threads which songs I feel best show off the beauty of Katy's voice).

Again, I want to hear people's thoughts on this song.  I am not trying to start any arguments, but rather to share my opinion on this song, and to try to learn why others like this song so much.  I want to be open minded and try to understand opinions that don't mirror my own.

Thanks!



Offline flapfkp

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 09:40:09 PM »
That was definitely a well-thought-out post...

As a preface, I am a straight male. Now:


Do you think it's possible that you're over-analyzing this just a bit?

I've voiced to you before (albeit more harshly than intended) that I'm not against the song by any means. Having said that, if the song was to be taken literally, I do not agree/condone the lyrics and phrases she speaks of. However, I think you can never take a song like this too seriously. I'm not refuting your argument, because I can see how the song can easily offend others. I'm just speaking my viewpoint of the song.

The way I see it, it's a somewhat harsh (but humorous) way of voicing anger over a breakup.

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Offline Iced Diamonds

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 01:06:03 AM »
Tbh I cbf reading all of that sorry - but I skimmed it so I got the main points :P you do raise a really good point about the suicide/bullying/stereotypes. I think for us girls I think we've all had that kind of guy in our past so maybe it's just girls 'get' the song a bit more? Though I do reiterate that it can be taken offensively with good reason. I also just love it cause it's like Katy's first I guess recognised song. Remember though that Katy was very young when she wrote OOTB like 17-23? So it was obviously not a song to take seriously. I think when she first started out she thought she could sing what she wanted and if it was just a silly/funny/joke song people would think the same. Maybe she was too naive to see that other people perceive things differently? I dont know, I'm just speculating ;) She's a lot older now and knows how to word things generally better so no one gets offended. Now all she has to worry about is not offending anyone with her music videos (eg. Dark horse with the illumini) <- with everything she does she's still going to offend some people like we might think that illumini shit is dumb and pathetic but it is real offence to some people ;)
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Offline TheMouse

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 08:22:39 AM »
I can understand your more personal points because I come from the corner of those problems probably even more than you do - when I was a youth I wore long hair, colorful clothes, and patchouli perfume. Later, I became partially a cross dresser, although I am and have always been a straight boy/man, with not a moment having to doubt that I've been into females only as far as sexual attraction goes. I even wore a long flowing skirt at one of my own birthday parties with a lot of people invited. Those who knew me well enough knew that I was still straight, and those who didn't know didn't give a damn what I was. I don't fit into any stereotype, and even now topics like football bore me to death while I could watch girlie movies all night - ideally with a woman I want to go to bed with afterwards.  :lol:
U're So Gay hasn't been a particularly popular song with me, just a number on the album, but it makes me laugh a bit about myself as it reminds me in parts of how I was when I was that age.
Gay bashing has never been a characteristic of Katy's. I think the point of the song is that a very self obsessed boy treated her inconsiderately, his features she uses in the song were just a means of making fun of him after she felt not having been treated with respect herself. If I believed that Katy thinks either A) gay people or B) people whose gender behaviour, or the lack of it, don't fit conventionally into society were people to be despised then I'd have one good reason to not like her at all - but we all know this is not so.
If I am with a partner I also have to consider her feelings and needs - wanting to be with her but simultaneously dressing in a feminine way and using more of her perfume than she does herself would only be a good idea if I neither could nor wanted to see the needs of a woman who wants to be with a man - and that's what the song is about generally, that in a relationship life is not always about me, me, me, but about seeing the other person, and if necessary taking one's own needs and preferences a step back in order to appreciate a partner at all.
It is a fun song like Peacock, and as somebody said before, not to be overanalysed. The reasons why Katy could well write a song like that when she was 17 and would probably not write another one like that now have been pointed out before - she was a girl then, and she's a woman now.
I may as well say now - Not that there's much wrong with it, but should you split my post in various sections by quotes and analyse each section successively I won't reply - I've made my points for all to see, and I'm finished with them.
   


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Offline mitsguy2001

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 11:19:06 AM »
That was definitely a well-thought-out post...

As a preface, I am a straight male. Now:


Do you think it's possible that you're over-analyzing this just a bit?

I've voiced to you before (albeit more harshly than intended) that I'm not against the song by any means. Having said that, if the song was to be taken literally, I do not agree/condone the lyrics and phrases she speaks of. However, I think you can never take a song like this too seriously. I'm not refuting your argument, because I can see how the song can easily offend others. I'm just speaking my viewpoint of the song.

The way I see it, it's a somewhat harsh (but humorous) way of voicing anger over a breakup.

I do thank you for your well thought out response.  While I understand your point that maybe I am over-analyzing things, my problem is the double standard.  Nobody would ever tell a woman, a racial or ethnic minority, or a religious minority (especially a Jew or Muslim), or a gay person that they are over-analyzing things when they are offended by a song or a video.  For example, when Muslims were offended by the Dark Horse video, Katy never said that they were over-analyzing things; she edited the video.  Yet when I, as a straight, white, Christian male am offended, society expects me to just keep my mouth shut and accept it.  Why the double standard?

Again, I am not trying to sound rude, but I just want to re-ask an honest question that you didn't answer: are you so de-sensitized to bullying and to double standards that you just accept it as the way things are?  Have you been indoctrinated by your teachers and parents to just keep your mouth shut and accept things?

Also, how would you feel if the song was being sung by a male singer, about an overly masculine ex-girlfriend?  If you would feel differently about it, then why the double standard?

Again, I do thank you for your honest and well thought out response.

Offline mitsguy2001

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 11:33:43 AM »
Tbh I cbf reading all of that sorry - but I skimmed it so I got the main points :P you do raise a really good point about the suicide/bullying/stereotypes. I think for us girls I think we've all had that kind of guy in our past so maybe it's just girls 'get' the song a bit more? Though I do reiterate that it can be taken offensively with good reason. I also just love it cause it's like Katy's first I guess recognised song. Remember though that Katy was very young when she wrote OOTB like 17-23? So it was obviously not a song to take seriously. I think when she first started out she thought she could sing what she wanted and if it was just a silly/funny/joke song people would think the same. Maybe she was too naive to see that other people perceive things differently? I dont know, I'm just speculating ;) She's a lot older now and knows how to word things generally better so no one gets offended. Now all she has to worry about is not offending anyone with her music videos (eg. Dark horse with the illumini) <- with everything she does she's still going to offend some people like we might think that illumini shit is dumb and pathetic but it is real offence to some people ;)

Thank you for your response.  While I understand your point, I do want to re-ask a question which you didn't answer: how would you feel if the song was sung by a male singer, about an overly masculine ex-girlfriend?  Would you feel the same way, or would you find it offensive?  If you would find it offensive, then why the double standard?

The other issue that nobody is commenting on is, how do you feel about this song contradicting the message of many of Katy's other songs, such as Firework, Pearl, and By the Grace of God?  I know that you said that Katy was young when she wrote this song.  But (according to other posters who seem knowledgeable), it was one of the last songs she wrote for One of the Boys.  And, she included it on the California Dreams Tour, even though it was from a past album, and not a major hit that fans would have demanded to see.

Offline mitsguy2001

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2014, 12:05:31 PM »
I can understand your more personal points because I come from the corner of those problems probably even more than you do - when I was a youth I wore long hair, colorful clothes, and patchouli perfume. Later, I became partially a cross dresser, although I am and have always been a straight boy/man, with not a moment having to doubt that I've been into females only as far as sexual attraction goes. I even wore a long flowing skirt at one of my own birthday parties with a lot of people invited. Those who knew me well enough knew that I was still straight, and those who didn't know didn't give a damn what I was. I don't fit into any stereotype, and even now topics like football bore me to death while I could watch girlie movies all night - ideally with a woman I want to go to bed with afterwards.  :lol:
U're So Gay hasn't been a particularly popular song with me, just a number on the album, but it makes me laugh a bit about myself as it reminds me in parts of how I was when I was that age.
Gay bashing has never been a characteristic of Katy's. I think the point of the song is that a very self obsessed boy treated her inconsiderately, his features she uses in the song were just a means of making fun of him after she felt not having been treated with respect herself. If I believed that Katy thinks either A) gay people or B) people whose gender behaviour, or the lack of it, don't fit conventionally into society were people to be despised then I'd have one good reason to not like her at all - but we all know this is not so.
If I am with a partner I also have to consider her feelings and needs - wanting to be with her but simultaneously dressing in a feminine way and using more of her perfume than she does herself would only be a good idea if I neither could nor wanted to see the needs of a woman who wants to be with a man - and that's what the song is about generally, that in a relationship life is not always about me, me, me, but about seeing the other person, and if necessary taking one's own needs and preferences a step back in order to appreciate a partner at all.
It is a fun song like Peacock, and as somebody said before, not to be overanalysed. The reasons why Katy could well write a song like that when she was 17 and would probably not write another one like that now have been pointed out before - she was a girl then, and she's a woman now.
I may as well say now - Not that there's much wrong with it, but should you split my post in various sections by quotes and analyse each section successively I won't reply - I've made my points for all to see, and I'm finished with them.
 

Thank you for your well thought out response and your openness about your personal life.  I guess I am somewhat unique in that while I do not conform to most stereotypical male stereotypes, I do not conform to stereotypical female stereotypes either.  I don't enjoy most stereotypical "girly" activities, and I think I have clearly shown on this board my disdain for teenage girl oriented music (although that could be an age issue rather than a gender issue).

While I am sure that the subject of the song was disrespectful to Katy, there are no lines in that song about how he was disrespectful.  The song is all about his supposed feminine behavior, including lines that make no sense at all (such as the line about the electric car, and the line about the sunscreen).  Instead of focusing on his feminine behavior, it would have been more appropriate for the song to focus on how disrespectful he was toward her.  You are 100% right that relationships require compromise.  But if one has to compromise their core values and the very essence of who they are, then the person that they are with is not the right person.  That is a point that many people miss, and it unfortunately leads to a lot of failed relationships.

You also have a good point that, depending on your perspective, when you relate to being on the "wrong end" of a song,  you can either find it offensive or find it humorous.  For me, due to certain life experiences, double standards (especially ones involving gender) are an absolute pet peeve of mine, and something that I have zero tolerance for, and not something that I feel should ever be joked about.  But sometimes experiences can change ones opinion.

For example, one song that I used to hate, because it invoked a double standard, was "Before He Cheats", by Carrie Underwood.  It is sung but not written by her, and the fact that both of its co-writers are male made me hate it even more, since I felt that it was 2 men encouraging double standards.  I felt it was a double standard, since if it was sung by a male singer about a possibly cheating ex-girlfriend, it would have been extremely controversial and would not have received airplay.  But my opinion on the song was completely changed when I heard a man sing it at karaoke.  He prefaced it saying that he is singing it to his ex-girlfriend who falsely accused him of cheating and dumped him.  He changed the lyrics to "before she cheats".  At the end of the song, he then started yelling into the microphone all of the double standards that he had to deal with in his relationship, such as how his ex-girlfriend would be allowed to hang out with her friends whenever she wanted to, but he was never allowed to do the same, and was accused of cheating even when he hung out with male friends.  I liked how he used that song to point out double standards that he and other men have to deal with in relationships.  And it helped me realize that the song was the narrator letting out frustration about how good it would feel to destroy her ex-boyfriend's car, even though she knows he can't do that.  Similarly, the guy singing that song at karaoke let out his frustration about how good it would feel for him to destroy his ex-girlfriend's car, even though he knows that he can't do it, since if he does so, he will go to jail (and rightfully so).  Before He Cheats is now a song that I like.

I do disagree with one thing: you said that Katy was 17 when she wrote this song.  But it was actually one of the later songs she wrote for One of the Boys, according to other posters who seem knowledgeable.  She would have been more like 22 when she wrote it.  And, even if she was young and immature when she wrote it, she did include it in the California Dreams tour, when she was 26-27, even though it was from a past album and was not a major hit.  So it's not as if Katy has renounced the song.

Offline flapfkp

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2014, 12:08:03 PM »
Again, I am not trying to sound rude, but I just want to re-ask an honest question that you didn't answer: are you so de-sensitized to bullying and to double standards that you just accept it as the way things are?  Have you been indoctrinated by your teachers and parents to just keep your mouth shut and accept things?

Also, how would you feel if the song was being sung by a male singer, about an overly masculine ex-girlfriend?  If you would feel differently about it, then why the double standard?

Again, I do thank you for your honest and well thought out response.

I think the first question you asked can be compared to the following: If I had a friend text me in response to a joke I made saying "I'll kill you", would you say I'm desensitized to murder to where I just accept it? The answer is obviously no, as to believe so would be an obvious case of over-analyzation.

I definitely am not desensitized to bullying; I have experienced it first-hand. I just don't see this song as bullying. Something about the eye of the beholder?

The second question about reverse roles doesn't strike an untuned note for me. I would feel the same way as I do about the song the way it is. No different.


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Offline Olivia

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2014, 03:18:24 PM »
You dug so deep you're basically in China right now... Or as your "friend" would say : you're rolling in the deep... :hehe: (yeah, i'm proud of me for this one). Anyway.

This is a silly song. Written as a silly break-up song. End of story, no double standards as to say : if a guy pointed out every single stereotypical stuff that annoyed him with a girl he just broke up with, it would be just that : a silly break-up song. It's actually making fun of the "girl" stereotypes, not the person with the stereotypes... The guy version would be how the girl plays with his video games, drink beer and eats pizza in front of a football game, etc. Neither guys OR girls actually NEED SPF45 just to stay alive => ridiculous stereotype. Same goes for the electric car : stupid stereotype that it's a "girly car". Same for every single "flaw" she cites about him : all of them are "girl" stereotypes she's making fun of ! In the form of a silly break-up song.

And i don't think people "like the song so much", i think you maybe you "hate it so much"... And maybe the fact that you say repeatedly that you don't like that song and don't understand why people would like it annoys other people, hence maybe some more than needed full-frontal reactions... I don't recall reading about a song ANYONE in here would dislike as much as you say everytime you get the opportunity how you don't like Ur so gay.

Offline Carmenxox

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2014, 04:58:45 PM »
That was definitely a well-thought-out post...

Do you think it's possible that you're over-analyzing this just a bit?

Exactly my thought. No offense mits but I got half way through your post and thought 'oh I get the idea of this, I'll scroll to the bottom!' In my opinion you are ridiculously over analyzing what is a very simple song.

I can't see why such an opinion of yours deems it's own thread. It's not like we don't already have a thread to express your opinion on the song Ur So Gay.

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« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 05:00:50 PM by Carmenxox »

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Offline OfficiallyAKatyKat4Life

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 05:58:16 PM »
You dug so deep you're basically in China right now... Or as your "friend" would say : you're rolling in the deep... :hehe: (yeah, i'm proud of me for this one). Anyway.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:



its just a song dude.

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Offline HOURGLAS4

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 07:41:38 PM »
Hey, Mits



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Offline steviep24

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 07:55:27 PM »
People like the song because it's quirky. It never was meant to be taken seriously.
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Offline Loligia

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2014, 08:47:02 PM »
I can'tpost on this
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Offline mitsguy2001

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Re: Why is "Ur So Gay" so popular on this board?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 09:08:53 PM »
Again, I am not trying to sound rude, but I just want to re-ask an honest question that you didn't answer: are you so de-sensitized to bullying and to double standards that you just accept it as the way things are?  Have you been indoctrinated by your teachers and parents to just keep your mouth shut and accept things?

Also, how would you feel if the song was being sung by a male singer, about an overly masculine ex-girlfriend?  If you would feel differently about it, then why the double standard?

Again, I do thank you for your honest and well thought out response.

I think the first question you asked can be compared to the following: If I had a friend text me in response to a joke I made saying "I'll kill you", would you say I'm desensitized to murder to where I just accept it? The answer is obviously no, as to believe so would be an obvious case of over-analyzation.

But, whether fairly or not, in many contexts, such as in school or in an airport, that would be taken seriously, even if you clearly intended it as a joke.  Also, if you are killed, your friend, whether fairly or not, will be the prime suspect.

Quote
I definitely am not desensitized to bullying; I have experienced it first-hand. I just don't see this song as bullying. Something about the eye of the beholder?

I'm guessing you've never dealt with the form of bullying I am talking about, where you are labeled "gay", and when you state that you are not gay, you are accused of being homophobic.  It is the worst kind of bullying since there is absolutely no way to defend against it.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 01:49:03 PM by mitsguy2001 »